Dude you’re cooking with this one. Perfect summary of the pitfalls of Jung and Peterson. We have striped or excarnated Christ. Many of us are creating masochists in our churches when we should be making redeemers and reconcilers.
Reading your stuff makes me feel this quote so hard.
"We do not want merely to see beauty, though, God knows, even that is bounty enough. We want something else which can hardly be put into words—
to be united with the beauty we see,
to pass into it, to receive it into ourselves, to bathe in it, to become part of it."
CS Lewis
I feel this way about all kinds of things, but your writing just resonates with me in a unique way.
It scratches the aching inch in my heart for our world in such a beautiful and poignant way. You put into words things that I wrestle with people in real time every day.
So much pastoring is just saying "Ughhhh, but Jesus is so much more than that."
This is amazing. I was searching for the truth for a long time, and yet it’s just so funny to me how these ideas from jung and Peterson seem so completely wide of the mark, when you’ve found the truth of Jesus.
It’s not acts that will save you, as I’m sure you’ll go on to say, but there is something that happens when you finally see the internal consistency of the bible and you are convinced that Jesus IS God.
Life just makes sense, and the need for striving just kinda falls away.. it’s so beautiful. Simply doing God’s will. In whom we ‘live, move, and have our being.’
Thanks for posting, looking forward to the next one!
Woah. This is a work of art. Thank you for this. I needed the reminder, as a Peterson fan that has gotten a little too used to the tropological readings, good as they are.
I do feel like I need be that guy in the comment - "Millions of young men (myself included) are deeply grateful for Jordan Peterson" - "and frankly, he filled in a gap that the church had long neglected"
That out of the way - This was a very good piece addressing the shortcomings of Jung and pragmatism.
As a Christian psychologist myself I love this! So well written and sadly true. Things are good and psychologically helpful because they are rooted in Truth (and the little truths) - that’s why we do double blind experiments! Haha
I think there is often a relationship between pragmatism and prelest for me, how many times iv thought " hmm this feels good, must be right." But civilizational Christianity and Christ as archetype, or moral example.. Its just not enough I hope for many that went down this path it leads to the incarnate Christ.
Tolkien was banging on the doors of meaning and fantasy but wrote a wholly Catholic book.
Lewis, before he was saved, was chased by the Bright Shadow — and then he realized it was Christ who was the true Myth and that demanded the simple “yes” of faith.
Peterson psychologizes the universe and reduces ultimate meaning to symbol and unconscious collectives.
They might be at the same doors, but I don’t think Peterson yet has the key.
Josh, I don’t know you, but this is excellent work. I’ve been trying to convince friends and family that Peterson is not pointing people to the Incarnate Christ like they think he is. My words have been insufficient to explain how, but I think yours have done it. You excellently detail how Peterson offers a Christ who will help you deal with suffering so you can enjoy this life, but not a Christ who literally and physically overcomes death and will raise us with him to new, everlasting life. Thank you for putting in all the work you did to get this out. So so good.
I joined substack with the sole purpose of following your work so thank you for this amazing piece!
You've really put into words how I've grown to feel about Peterson over the years. He undoubtedly has been instrumental in strengthening and bolstering my Christian faith but his reluctance to make a clear affirmation of belief in the Literal Christ (rooting himself in the Truth) caused me to start to move away from listening to him. Ironically, through him I was led to listening to a friend of his (Pageau) who then led me to exploring deeper Christian ideas (eastern Orthodoxy, although I am not Orthodox myself) and how it's very important to live the faith out Literally in the Wild (😉) and not just psychologically.
"Pragmatism is a matter of human needs; and one of the first of human needs is to be something more than a pragmatist" - GKC
Damn I LOVE Chesterton
Dude you’re cooking with this one. Perfect summary of the pitfalls of Jung and Peterson. We have striped or excarnated Christ. Many of us are creating masochists in our churches when we should be making redeemers and reconcilers.
Bless you — it’s hard to know to full scope of a psychological fallout, and I guess time will tell. But, I’d like to avoid it.
And just wait till the next one.
We will see, I’m excited for 90s summer. Hopefully some of the fallout can be remedied by getting off these dang screens.
100%
Reading your stuff makes me feel this quote so hard.
"We do not want merely to see beauty, though, God knows, even that is bounty enough. We want something else which can hardly be put into words—
to be united with the beauty we see,
to pass into it, to receive it into ourselves, to bathe in it, to become part of it."
CS Lewis
I feel this way about all kinds of things, but your writing just resonates with me in a unique way.
It scratches the aching inch in my heart for our world in such a beautiful and poignant way. You put into words things that I wrestle with people in real time every day.
So much pastoring is just saying "Ughhhh, but Jesus is so much more than that."
Man I really love and appreciate this. And you’re so right — we just have to keep giving language for the “better”
Yessir. I am smitten by how good this is.
*s w o o n*
This is amazing. I was searching for the truth for a long time, and yet it’s just so funny to me how these ideas from jung and Peterson seem so completely wide of the mark, when you’ve found the truth of Jesus.
It’s not acts that will save you, as I’m sure you’ll go on to say, but there is something that happens when you finally see the internal consistency of the bible and you are convinced that Jesus IS God.
Life just makes sense, and the need for striving just kinda falls away.. it’s so beautiful. Simply doing God’s will. In whom we ‘live, move, and have our being.’
Thanks for posting, looking forward to the next one!
Woah. This is a work of art. Thank you for this. I needed the reminder, as a Peterson fan that has gotten a little too used to the tropological readings, good as they are.
And they are quite good
I'm new to regular use of Substack. This is the first essay of yours I've read—stunningly good.
Probably the best read of this type in at least a year or two. Thankful to have stumbled across your work.
Bless you my friend !
I do feel like I need be that guy in the comment - "Millions of young men (myself included) are deeply grateful for Jordan Peterson" - "and frankly, he filled in a gap that the church had long neglected"
That out of the way - This was a very good piece addressing the shortcomings of Jung and pragmatism.
For sure - and I could have spent more time on that - but I feel like it’s been in the conversation for years.
This, less so.
As a Christian psychologist myself I love this! So well written and sadly true. Things are good and psychologically helpful because they are rooted in Truth (and the little truths) - that’s why we do double blind experiments! Haha
I think there is often a relationship between pragmatism and prelest for me, how many times iv thought " hmm this feels good, must be right." But civilizational Christianity and Christ as archetype, or moral example.. Its just not enough I hope for many that went down this path it leads to the incarnate Christ.
do you not think that peterson is knocking on the same doors tolkien and lewis were knocking on?
i suppose though - like you said - "first things first" matter a lot here.
I don’t know what you mean.
Tolkien was banging on the doors of meaning and fantasy but wrote a wholly Catholic book.
Lewis, before he was saved, was chased by the Bright Shadow — and then he realized it was Christ who was the true Myth and that demanded the simple “yes” of faith.
Peterson psychologizes the universe and reduces ultimate meaning to symbol and unconscious collectives.
They might be at the same doors, but I don’t think Peterson yet has the key.
Wow once again
🙏🙏🙏
Well done
So on point. Thank you for sharing. Excited for the next one!
Josh, I don’t know you, but this is excellent work. I’ve been trying to convince friends and family that Peterson is not pointing people to the Incarnate Christ like they think he is. My words have been insufficient to explain how, but I think yours have done it. You excellently detail how Peterson offers a Christ who will help you deal with suffering so you can enjoy this life, but not a Christ who literally and physically overcomes death and will raise us with him to new, everlasting life. Thank you for putting in all the work you did to get this out. So so good.
I joined substack with the sole purpose of following your work so thank you for this amazing piece!
You've really put into words how I've grown to feel about Peterson over the years. He undoubtedly has been instrumental in strengthening and bolstering my Christian faith but his reluctance to make a clear affirmation of belief in the Literal Christ (rooting himself in the Truth) caused me to start to move away from listening to him. Ironically, through him I was led to listening to a friend of his (Pageau) who then led me to exploring deeper Christian ideas (eastern Orthodoxy, although I am not Orthodox myself) and how it's very important to live the faith out Literally in the Wild (😉) and not just psychologically.